Comments on: 4-down, misappropriation of traditional knowledge http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/ a linguist without a language Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:47:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Phil Parker http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-14433 Phil Parker Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:45:56 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-14433 Hi, Before I finalize an open letter to linguists, here is an update on things (go to the bottom of the page): http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/elac/2008/07/copy_right_peter_k_austin.html I have not recieved many emails from people on this topic. If I have not heard from you (or you are using a pen name that I do not recognize), please send me an email at phil.parker at insead.edu letting me know. As my post, in the link above explains, I am more than happy to give any citations, or make corrections or delist titles that serve no purpose, but I need to hear from people in order to do so. Many Thanks Phil p.s. I am waiting to hear back from a couple of linguists concerned before I finalize the letter … Hi,
Before I finalize an open letter to linguists, here is an update on things (go to the bottom of the page):

http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/elac/2008/07/copy_right_peter_k_austin.html

I have not recieved many emails from people on this topic. If I have not heard from you (or you are using a pen name that I do not recognize), please send me an email at phil.parker at insead.edu letting me know. As my post, in the link above explains, I am more than happy to give any citations, or make corrections or delist titles that serve no purpose, but I need to hear from people in order to do so.
Many Thanks
Phil

p.s. I am waiting to hear back from a couple of linguists concerned before I finalize the letter …

]]> By: Diabolical » matjjin-nehen http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-7421 Diabolical » matjjin-nehen Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:02:33 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-7421 [...] continue the saga of the stolen wordlists (see my own posts on this here and here, or Peter Austin’s posts here and here for background) I’ve decided that if [...] [...] continue the saga of the stolen wordlists (see my own posts on this here and here, or Peter Austin’s posts here and here for background) I’ve decided that if [...]

]]> By: Beware of the Plagiarist » matjjin-nehen http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-7182 Beware of the Plagiarist » matjjin-nehen Sun, 06 Jul 2008 02:03:20 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-7182 [...] A few posts back, I wrote about a book that David Nash had found on Amazon.com, which appeared to be a bi-directional crossword-puzzle book between English and Wageman [sic1]. It seemed as though these books, and a few others on Amazon on Wageman, contained the very same wordlist collected by a previous researcher and published under copyright at AIATSIS. [...] [...] A few posts back, I wrote about a book that David Nash had found on Amazon.com, which appeared to be a bi-directional crossword-puzzle book between English and Wageman [sic1]. It seemed as though these books, and a few others on Amazon on Wageman, contained the very same wordlist collected by a previous researcher and published under copyright at AIATSIS. [...]

]]> By: Cooper http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5532 Cooper Thu, 29 May 2008 09:35:16 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5532 Yeah very soon actually. He's back at the start of July, as am I. Time went so fast! Yeah very soon actually. He’s back at the start of July, as am I.

Time went so fast!

]]> By: jangari http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5501 jangari Wed, 28 May 2008 23:12:24 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5501 Peter, that sounds like a good idea. I don't have anything more concrete to contribute though, besides the mere observation that this has happened. I'll contact Kybrook Farm and find out what the Wagiman community thinks/wants. Certainly the web-published dictionary is subject to copyright. All I was saying that it is freely available for people to view, as are the online wordlists that this guy publishes, but the copyright would probably prohibit wider distribution - depending on the resource. He must, however, have gathered the data from the various online resources by bot-harvesting; clicking through each html link and copying the entry would be a task of untold tedium. The irony lies in that he has placed a similar restriction on further distribution in his own copyright of the data, and has prohibited harvesting, the same method through which he gathered the material. The copyright on whatever source he got this data from (perhaps you know this) may well have expired - though I don't know much about IP rights and protocols; Creative Commons gives me all I need to know - but there's surely a legal case here. Alex, I agree. Had they done any wider research on Wagiman, they probably wouldn't have bothered printing such a book. It seems that for each language that have in their extensive corpus on online sources, they could eventually produce a print dictionary, thesaurus and two crossword puzzle books, one in each direction. Sometimes I question the sentience of the being that produces these books - it may all be driven by very complex python scripts! Good to see you Cooper. Laurie on his way back to Sydney soon? Peter, that sounds like a good idea. I don’t have anything more concrete to contribute though, besides the mere observation that this has happened. I’ll contact Kybrook Farm and find out what the Wagiman community thinks/wants.

Certainly the web-published dictionary is subject to copyright. All I was saying that it is freely available for people to view, as are the online wordlists that this guy publishes, but the copyright would probably prohibit wider distribution – depending on the resource. He must, however, have gathered the data from the various online resources by bot-harvesting; clicking through each html link and copying the entry would be a task of untold tedium. The irony lies in that he has placed a similar restriction on further distribution in his own copyright of the data, and has prohibited harvesting, the same method through which he gathered the material.

The copyright on whatever source he got this data from (perhaps you know this) may well have expired – though I don’t know much about IP rights and protocols; Creative Commons gives me all I need to know – but there’s surely a legal case here.

Alex, I agree. Had they done any wider research on Wagiman, they probably wouldn’t have bothered printing such a book. It seems that for each language that have in their extensive corpus on online sources, they could eventually produce a print dictionary, thesaurus and two crossword puzzle books, one in each direction. Sometimes I question the sentience of the being that produces these books – it may all be driven by very complex python scripts!

Good to see you Cooper. Laurie on his way back to Sydney soon?

]]> By: Cooper http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5457 Cooper Wed, 28 May 2008 11:36:42 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5457 Man, good to see you're still digging up the interesting stuff. I'm somewhat of a proponent for an information commons in general, as I'm sure you are... but when someone takes something from the public domain and then puts a price tag on it (and says you can't take from them), that's just slimy, infuriating and unacceptable. And as you say, the closed nature of their information means they can spread misinformation. Keep us updated. Peter, I've been reading "The Future of Ideas", it gives some idea of what the concepts of fair use and public domain mean legally and why we might want to keep the internet open. You may find it of interest. Man, good to see you’re still digging up the interesting stuff. I’m somewhat of a proponent for an information commons in general, as I’m sure you are… but when someone takes something from the public domain and then puts a price tag on it (and says you can’t take from them), that’s just slimy, infuriating and unacceptable. And as you say, the closed nature of their information means they can spread misinformation.

Keep us updated.

Peter, I’ve been reading “The Future of Ideas”, it gives some idea of what the concepts of fair use and public domain mean legally and why we might want to keep the internet open. You may find it of interest.

]]> By: Alex Case http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5455 Alex Case Wed, 28 May 2008 11:01:07 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5455 Sounds like the whole book is electronically generated to me. A sure give away is if there is an almost identical description of another book in the series with just the names of the languages changed. Sounds like the whole book is electronically generated to me. A sure give away is if there is an almost identical description of another book in the series with just the names of the languages changed.

]]> By: Peter Austin http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5450 Peter Austin Wed, 28 May 2008 09:21:27 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5450 David Nathan and I have been discussing ways to propose a linguistics community approach to this matter (our Gamilaraay web dictionary materials also appear to have been misappropriated) rather than having individuals severally attempting to make their own cases. We are putting evidence together and plan to take the matter both to the author (who has apparently violated copyright and IP rights of the original language contributors)and to Amazon who are promoting the sale of the books. If you would like to join this effort please let us know and please provide what evidence you have accumulated regarding misappropriation. I'm not sure that I understand your term 'public domain web-publication' - could you explain how publication on the internet is not subject to copyright? David Nathan and I have been discussing ways to propose a linguistics community approach to this matter (our Gamilaraay web dictionary materials also appear to have been misappropriated) rather than having individuals severally attempting to make their own cases. We are putting evidence together and plan to take the matter both to the author (who has apparently violated copyright and IP rights of the original language contributors)and to Amazon who are promoting the sale of the books. If you would like to join this effort please let us know and please provide what evidence you have accumulated regarding misappropriation.

I’m not sure that I understand your term ‘public domain web-publication’ – could you explain how publication on the internet is not subject to copyright?

]]> By: Claire http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/2008/05/27/4-down-misappropriation-of-traditional-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-5446 Claire Wed, 28 May 2008 05:02:41 +0000 http://www.matjjin-nehen.com/?p=214#comment-5446 Yeah, David told me about their unauthorised republication of Nhirrpi data too. It's irritating. I've emailed the guy behind it to respectfully request attribution but haven't heard anything back yet. Yeah, David told me about their unauthorised republication of Nhirrpi data too. It’s irritating. I’ve emailed the guy behind it to respectfully request attribution but haven’t heard anything back yet.

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