Fri 13 Apr 2007
Wagimanification
Posted by jangari under Linguistics, Nothing in particular
[15] Comments
I hope you’ve all noticed that I’ve ‘Wagimanified’ my blog as much as possible. All of my sidebar widgets now have Wagiman names, except obviously, the words for which there are no clear equivalents, like ‘blog’, ‘Email’ or ‘post’.
Just for clarification, Wagiman hasn’t really got anything for ‘recent’ as far as I know. So, for ‘recent posts’ I used nganing-gin posts, which is ‘My posts’ and for ‘recent comments’ I’ve instead used gordo-gin comments, which means ‘your comments’ (you here being plural). But given the context of each widget, it shouldn’t at all be difficult to figure out which is which.
As far as the blogroll goes, the first lot, blog-giwu matjjin-gu is ‘blogs on language’, and the other is a bit of a truncation, wuji matjjin-gu meaning ‘not on language’.
I’ve also removed the text on the banner and replaced it with photoshopped text inside the banner, I think it looks a lot better.
I think I just need to practise using a bit more Wagiman in preparation for my coming field trip, in late June. I don’t wanna spend the first 2 weeks getting used to the language again.
April 13th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Banner looks rad!
But, what are your thoughts on ‘ownership’ of a language? I remember you wrote earlier about the case in South America vs Microsoft.
Any news on that? Does it apply to this blog?
April 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
To avoid addressing that issue in relation to this blog, you reminded me of a blog I found yesterday, called ‘murr-ma‘, which is a Wagiman word (a coverb) for ‘walking through shallow water looking for something by shuffling your feet’. She got it from a book called ‘The Meaning of Tingo …and other extraordinary words from around the world’, which I find a little bit bizarre.; I wonder if they had permission to use that word in their book. They would have got it from the publicly available online dictionary.
Does it apply to this blog?
How do you mean? Do I have permission to use Wagiman here specifically? Well, not specifically, but I do have community permission to learn and to use Wagiman. I’m certain they wouldn’t mind.
April 13th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
I guess I’m just interested in the idea of a language copyright. And also of translation copyright, which you allude to re: The Meaning of Tingo.
Was there any resolution on the Microsoft case?
April 13th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
I certainly no expert but as far as I know, there is no way to copyright a language as such, but people get around it frequently by registering individual phrases, tags and names, I imagine. Fieldworkers in Australia are constrained by ethics committee approval, for which they need a signature of the language speaker on a form stating that they allow the worker to learn the language and make recordings. It isn’t necessary in a strictly legal sense, but we do it anyway.
In fact I don’t think it has to be a legal issue; language workers tend to get emotionally involved with the community such that they wouldn’t take advantage of them. That is, until afterwards, when language materials like dictionaries, words and phrases are informally distributed. Eventually, someone will get a hold of it and stick it in a book sans-permission. I’m at a loss as to what to do then.
As for the Microsoft case, well, I’m afraid I’m guilty of the classic Today Tonight “I’ll be keeping an eye on this story and I’ll keep you posted”. Truth is I haven’t heard anything else about it.
April 14th, 2007 at 8:29 am
Pobala, maiti yubin lujim langgwuj.
yu garra gubek langa kantri na.
Tumaj yu bin jidanabat langa big shiti.
weya dey tok najakain, yuno tharran blanga gardiya.
Yu garra gubek na, bifi yu kaan ketjimap olabat.
Laiga mi. I garra gubek. Dijeyi ai gandabi lujim langgwuj igen.
April 14th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Det yu, Joe?
I know, I know! I’ll be there soon.
April 14th, 2007 at 10:53 am
By the way, I was having a look at various skin systems and I think Jangari is the equivalent of Japangarti in your system, and you are Tjimija in my system. That makes you my Mother-in-law’s brother (or some such relation).
Got a niece?
April 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Yuwayi,
yu getin sebi na, indit.
Yunmi kalim mijelp maliyi o gurriji o jamjing lagijat (mo-in-law.bro).
Yuwayi ai garram niece. Bat i ani kit. Yu garra weit na.
April 14th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Far out, you’re testing me now.
We need Wamut to peruse through the Language Centre’s various skin charts, I’m sure he can throw us a term or two.
April 14th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Hi Maliyi,
maliyi and gurriji are two Jaru terms for mother-in-law and mother-in-law’s brother.
Both words are in Gurindji and Wanyjirra as well. Maybe they go further east as well I don’t know.
Sorry for going all pama-nyungan on you.
Jungurra
April 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Interesting. Mali has crept into the Kriol Dikshenri as mother-in-law, but there’s nothing about her brother.
Is it the same in Jaru? If so, it’d be a reasonable basis to use maliyi.
One day I’ll figure all this out with some empiricism, but from my little folded paper, kids game thingy, it appears that the mother-in-law’s brother relationship is completely reciprocal. I am the brother of your mother-in-law all the same. I had no idea!
You were a Pama-Nyunganite in a previous life, eh?
April 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
oh, of course you knew that already:
Yunmi kalim mijelp maliyi
My Kriol aint what it should be.
April 15th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
gardi… yunbala bastimap det Kriol
Jaŋari, talking bout that ‘meaning of Tingo’ book and them using a Wagiman word…
I dont’ know…I guess if it’s been published somewhere and all they’ve done is taken it from there and cited the source, well that’s all you need to do Western style… My personal feeling is that doing this isn’t too problematic… but I’m happy for you to argue against that.
It seems rather innocent to me… but to take it to another level, somethings that i’ve always found a bit irksome is that linguists can study a minority language from published sources and not have to have any contact with the language custodians. I know this is legitimate western style, and I can’t judge if there are ethical problems, but it just seems kinda funny to me… like I heard of someone in America who was looking at Ngandi, via the published grammar but had no contact with any Ngandi people. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but don’t you think it’s kinda kooky?
April 15th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Wamut, you make a good point about that book. Since the entire known wordlist is effectively in the public domain by being internet published, then given appropriate attribution they can probably reproduce whatever they like – unless AIATSIS has some underlying disclaimer. I haven’t seen a copy of the book, so I have no idea.
I’m not arguing against it necessarily, just raising the issue. But as Cooper raised the point of language ownership, I think that if an owner thought that the language, or a part thereof, was being used improperly, then s/he should be able to veto its use. And yes, I am fully aware of the legal impracticalities of that when you take it to its logical conclusion, but they are western, legal artefacts.
While you’re here Wamut, do you know if Kriol has a word for mother-in-law’s brother?
April 16th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
mela tok ‘muluri’ iya la Ngukurr… yu ‘muluri’, im bla yu gajin (or poison cousin/mother-in-law) braja.